[GAME] EmptyEpsilon

Dr_JT · April 2016

There was a ship trying to dock while the battle raged at the station. Two missile carriers came in and started pounding the station. They were quite a ways off so I launched a nuke at them but the game crashed before it was half way to them.

Different subject.
Someone may have already suggested this, but in the Engineering station, it would be nice to have the same icons used on the floor plan next to the text descriptions of the power/cooling/damage panel. It would act as a legend for the icons.

daid · April 2016

Dr_JT said:
Different subject.
Someone may have already suggested this, but in the Engineering station, it would be nice to have the same icons used on the floor plan next to the text descriptions of the power/cooling/damage panel. It would act as a legend for the icons.

Latest DEV ;-)

HOU5E · April 2016

Good stuff! Which reminds me about something I've been meaning to suggest... Having the ship layout rotated so "up" is "front". I'll pop it on github for the wider world to consider

HOU5E · April 2016

Oh by the way @daid I love the changes to the tweak menu for the GM, for some reason the ability to add beam arcs so easily made me very happy

daid · April 2016

I was planning to do that when I implemented the refit option. But never got around to do it properly.

And I think this change will make some people happy:

John Bono · April 2016

daid said:

Latest DEV ;-)

What does it look like when you add more modules? I see this only has one drive.

daid · April 2016

Both drives currently share the same icon. Due to lazyness.

HOU5E · April 2016

I'm thinking the swirl makes more sense for the Jump Drive than the Warp Drive *(and the only other things I can think of would get confusing if a cloaking function is ever introduced).

Representing Warp as a more aggressive or just embellished version of Impulse makes intuitive sense to me, slapped together a couple of quick examples below.

1

2

3

HOU5E · April 2016

*sigh* I managed to use the same image twice... Let's call this one #3 and pretend that didn't happen.

daid · April 2016

I like simplicity.

Also, I think the small lines on the left won't scale well.

Also, I've wrapped up the code that should make internet enabled servers possible. You still need to use port forwarding in your router. But the players will no longer need to enter manual IPs. With this I've also added the option to have password protected servers.

daid · April 2016

Ok, doing another build. I know these are flying around your ears by now. But I fixed something that might fix the keyboard input related crashes. And I rather push out crash fixes ASAP.

Also started to fix a few things for wide-screen monitors. So the ship selection and server creation screens should look better on wide screen monitors.

Sixty -40- · April 2016

Excellent work. If I could e-mail you a cookie I would. You've earned it.

HOU5E · April 2016

I agree with you on the smaller lines, and your choice looks great

If you ever hear me complaining about releases of new features happening too often then you know I've been hacked or something!

MyrddinE · April 2016

This is a repost of a github comment I made. I'm curious to know if anyone shares my opinion.

Engineering is loaded with . Trade offs with consequence.

Imagine if you made engineering do a time-wasting minigame every time they wanted to send a repairman to a new room. They have already done the meaningful decision... now you are making them do an interrupting, time wasting minigame that's unrelated to the part of the job that is meaningful and interesting.

Science is all about situational awareness and relaying information. The minigame completely blocks that task. So it's not the way the minigame works (though I still think the minigame could be better)... it's that there is a minigame at all!

What if Science had a scanning dish that could be aimed, and only ships in its cone could be scanned? Perhaps it allowed limited vision into nebula? Perhaps the vision range is 15km in all directions, but 30 in the arc of the scanning dish? Then science could have a meaningful decision related to their task, about where to focus their resources (the science dish). The dish could take time to rotate. I would then remove the scanning minigame and simply make it take time to complete (during which no other object can be scanned, and the timer only counts down while the target remains in the scanning cone).

With this change the science officer can continue to provide situational awareness at all times and has choices to make relevant to their role. I'm sure there are different ways that a meaningful choice could be added to Science; a scanning dish is just a possibility. But I don't think that the minigame adds anything to the role except busywork. It is there to make a boring role less boring, but I think it fails at this. So if someone has a better idea of how to add meaningful decisions to science I'm all ears.

VolgClawtooth · April 2016

MyrddinE said:
But I don't think that the minigame adds anything to the role except busywork. It is there to make a boring role less boring, but I think it fails at this. So if someone has a better idea of how to add meaningful decisions to science I'm all ears.

I disagree.. HOWEVER. There is an option on the Start Server screen to set the Science to 'None (Time Delay)' Easy, Medium and Hard..... so you can eliminate the scanner adjustment.
That said.. with shields and such that can be modulated and interference and such.. having to adjust your sensors for each scan makes sense.. HAM Radio operators have to adjust a number of settings to receive and clean up radio signals.. why would you assume that simply pointing a dish at something is going to provide anything more than meaningless static without adjustment?
Even modern military radar requires tuning to identify incoming signals in order to identify said incoming beyond 'blip on my screen' simply to account for EM interference, weather, hull composition etcetera.. Science's meaningful decision is which one to scan first based on preliminary, primary and secondary data.. preliminary being blips on screen moving different speeds, primary meaning stuff scanned for basic make/model friend or foe data and secondary being the detailed shield/weapons data.
If I were to suggest an actual change it would be to provide enemy ship shield frequency with the primary scan which just had to compensate for said shield to get basic data..

Flea11 · April 2016

I like the cone scan idea, much like hydrophones in a uboat

daid · April 2016

While I see what you mean. I disagree. While engineering spends most of his/her time managing systems and making choices directly related to it's controls.

Science is a whole different beast. Science makes choices on what he/she spends attention on. You need to filter the information properly so you do not overload the captain with information, but you also need to make sure you give the captain the information he/she needs.
Then the scanning mechanic IMHO adds perfectly on that, as as soon as you want to scan, it's needs 100% of your attention. In our recent game, science totally messed up, as he was too busy scanning and not busy enough spreading the proper information.

I also don't think aiming a radar will add what you hope to add. It's not any more a meaningful decision then the scanning minigame. It's just something you have to wait for, wait till the radar is aimed to the proper location. And, at some point (like a year ago) science had a mechanic like this, and I removed it, cause it confused the hell out of the captain that information could be outdated.

I think your base assumption is wrong. The role of science is not scanning. Scanning is just a small part of it. Science is information distribution. No other station knows as much as science. Science knows if the enemy shields are almost down or only have a small dent. Science knows if a station is under attack. I never seen science have a dull moment.

My main "problem" stations are weapons and relay. Relay's roll is quite random depending on the scenario, sometimes he is bored as hell on the waves and basic scenario, at other times he is the center of everything in a proper mission scenario.
Weapons roll I found currently the worst, I noticed that weapons in general needs to most explanation with the missile aiming and the targeting. The aim lock and aiming controls are quite confusing.

VolgClawtooth · April 2016

I'll second that Aim Lo ck.. trying to explain it at a Convention to new players is... 'interesting'

MyrddinE · April 2016

daid said:
I think your base assumption is wrong. The role of science is not scanning. Scanning is just a small part of it. Science is information distribution.

Well... actually, that's my entire point. Scanning interrupts my role. So... why is it even in the game? I don't think it enhances the core role of the science officer at all. It is busywork. You can remove it, using the option VolgClawtooth mentioned, but I don't understand why it's in the game at all. It has some nice 'technobabble' link to the task, but in practice it interrupts the interesting part of the role with an interruption.

If Science is really that fulfilling of a role on its own as you describe, why did you add the minigame? Why, for example, is there not a minigame before the Helm can perform a Jump, or a minigame for Weapons to load a missile?

Flea11 · April 2016

I don't see it as a mini game(scanning) rather a game mechanic used to simulate deciphering sensor signatures. My players catch on real quick. However the sensor waves on the outside of the radar has yet to be tested with my players.

daid · April 2016

I'm not going to change your mind on this. But you're not going to change my mind on it.

I think it adds a "meaningful decision". Do I scan more, or do I update the information to the captain? What do I scan twice? (especially because the 2nd scan takes quite a bit more time)
It also adds that the captain can shout "I need basic info NOW, stop scanning you ****"

Now what are we going to do with weapons? I think the tube loading is a good mechanic. I've seen weapons officers screw up more then once because they didn't listen well, causing quite some mayhem. "But, I do not have a nuke loaded", "Oops, that was a mine", "Yes captain, but I'm still unloading the stuff that you never told me to load in the first place"

I think the missile aiming doesn't work very well. It's too hard to catch on. Confuses a lot of players. And I think I will replace it with auto-aiming based on your current target. This means also that weapons will be less forgetful in setting it's target. Which is what I was in our recent games with this new missile aiming.

VolgClawtooth · April 2016

Having missiles begin auto-tracking from the tube exit rather than a few seconds after launch would be helpful. also having them able to launched in the direction of the target (or at least as close to the targets direction within a 60-180 degree arc) would be an awesome. Also maybe specifying fore and aft tubes.. It'd be kind of cool to have weapons making meaningful decisions about which tube to fire based on which direction it faced.. you could launch a mine forward out the fore tube while in reverse! But then you'd only be launching 1 missile at a time forward because the other tub shoots aft! Capital ships with port and starboard missile banks would then be a possibility.

VolgClawtooth · April 2016

MyrddinE said:

Well... actually, that's my entire point. Scanning interrupts my role. So... why is it even in the game? I don't think it enhances the core role of the science officer at all. It is busywork. You can remove it, using the option VolgClawtooth mentioned, but I don't understand why it's in the game at all. It has some nice 'technobabble' link to the task, but in practice it interrupts the interesting part of the role with an interruption.

If Science is really that fulfilling of a role on its own as you describe, why did you add the minigame? Why, for example, is there not a minigame before the Helm can perform a Jump, or a minigame for Weapons to load a missile?

It's not a minigame.. Science officers in almost every spacefaring franchise are constantly having to adjust. cleanup and tune scans to get the data.. It is a mechanic of the job, not a 'minigame'.
The helm Jump mechanic is setting the distance and heading.
The weapons tube mechanic is selecting ammunition and loading the tubes.
The science mechanic is selecting the target and adjusting the scanners to scan the target.
Relay mechanic is selecting the communications target and opening a channel or setting waypoints then opening a channel to a station to request reinforcements
The engineering mechanic is selecting the active system and adjusting coolant and power levels as well as ordering repair crews to damaged systems...

Flea11 · April 2016

Can you make a selection to keep the missing aiming? I like it quite a bit. Once I tell my players what it is for it isn't an issue, unless they forget to change it(which adds some mayhem). I like doing orders for strafing runs, and the aiming to the side while going somewhere is a fun mechanic.
Thanks

Flea11 · April 2016

I agree with volgclawtooth, different direction facing tubes would be awesome! Long asi get to keep the aiming tool:)

daid · April 2016

Wouldn't even be that hard to implement tubes with different directions. But I'm not sure how to do the UI, how to make it clear which tube is which direction?

Flea11 · April 2016

How about a rough or wire frame picture of the ship with the tubes shown? That might be to big, I can try and draw something tonight, in silent hunter there is a list of the tubes, (lighted indicators), then a graphic on another page shows actual tubes.

VolgClawtooth · April 2016

Groupings:
Tubes
Fore
(LOAD) Empty
Aft
(UNLOAD) Nuke

or for the previously mentioned Capital batteries:
Port
(UNLOAD) Homing
(UNLOAD) Homing
(UNLOAD) Homing
Starboard
(UNLOAD) Homing
(UNLOAD) Nuke
(LOAD) Empty

Flea11 · April 2016

Okay, please excuse the crudeness of this drawing, I am a firefighter...as such we are not known for our art...besides great stick figures and flames...

Basicly a graphic ship representation with tubes, ?

Thanks

John Bono · April 2016

daid said:
Now what are we going to do with weapons? I think the tube loading is a good mechanic. I've seen weapons officers screw up more then once because they didn't listen well, causing quite some mayhem. "But, I do not have a nuke loaded", "Oops, that was a mine", "Yes captain, but I'm still unloading the stuff that you never told me to load in the first place"

I think the missile aiming doesn't work very well. It's too hard to catch on. Confuses a lot of players. And I think I will replace it with auto-aiming based on your current target. This means also that weapons will be less forgetful in setting it's target. Which is what I was in our recent games with this new missile aiming.

Once we figure out what we want the lock jammer disarming mechanic to be, Trevor and I will post that proposal as a new thread.
As for Weapons, what we've been thinking is to give the weapons a mechanic where they can swap-out warheads on different engine types. Some engines could be more maneuverable, while others can be faster, but home less well (or not home at all!). We still have some brainstorming to do, because we want to give Weapons more to do outside of combat. The other thing we want to do is make it possible for missiles to hit those damn zippy fighters more frequently. This change would best go hand-in-hand with our missile lock jammer proposal though, because part of that is taking the Tokyo-drift slider off of larger ships, so that they have to rely on Relay and Science a little more in combat to make sure your missiles hit and theirs don't.

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